John Tyreman went from drumming in a band in high school (and realizing that promoting the music is often a bigger task than making it) to working for a digital marketing agency (and helping them start a podcast) to starting his own agency which now focuses on helping consultants start and promote their own podcasts.
John hosts the Podcasting in Professional Services podcast and co-hosts the Breaking Biz Dev podcast with Mark Wainright.
Podcasting expert John Tyreman provides tips on using your podcast to get clients, including:
Figuring out the right format for your podcast.
How to get guests without stress.
How to promote your podcast.
What equipment you do (and don’t) need (it’s easier to get started that you think.
And so much more.
And if you’re a solo professional, looking to convert podcast energy into clients, you’ll want to use Mimiran as an “anti-CRM” to hone in on your ideal clients and guests, nurture relationships with them, and use lead magnets as a way to convert listeners to conversations and clients.
The Wine
Reuben is having another glass of Petroni Sangiovese from California (!!), not usually known as a hotbed of Sangiovese.
John has an FML (that’s “Fear Moving Lions”) Hazy IPA.
Unlike CRMs built for the VP of sales to keep track of a sales team, where contacts are just statistics, Mimiran is built for relationships, networking, and referrals.
(In Mimiran, use the Mission & Positioning Screen to figure out how to address your ideal audience. Then use the Lead Magnet feature to translate listeners to leads and conversations. And, of course, make sure to create and nurture relationships with your guests and other contacts with Mimiran’s emphasis on the Relationship part of CRM.)
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In this episode, veteran marketer Kristin Zhivago (and author of Roadmap to Revenue: How to Sell the Way Your Customers Want to Buy) discusses how you can uncover your best customers’ buying behaviors so you can align your marketing to attract your best customers, and then make it easy for them to buy from you.
Kristin was always a tomboy, into mechanical things, and as a teen, she started selling machine shop tools for Pratt & Whitney, but her miniskirt (her description, not mine) didn’t get her the sale when she couldn’t explain why one drill bit was better than another. She realized she was going to have to get a lot more knowledgeable about sales and marketing, which led to her opening an ad agency in Silicon Valley in the late 70s, but the Mac came along and she realized that companies were going to start bringing marketing in house.
In 2017, she started her latest agency, Zhivago Partners for companies that struggle with marketing after some initial success.
Kristin found that it’s easier to teach engineers marketing than marketers engineering. But you still need to teach them, otherwise you get:
“Dead Chicken Marketing”
In other words, you don’t sell KFC as “Dead Chicken Cooked in Oil at X Degrees”. You sell it as “finger lickin’ good”.
Kristin’s Approach
It’s not rocket science: Interview customers and reverse-engineer the buying process.
People are using AI to build personas… but we can’t figure out their mindset that makes them want to buy. We need to understand:
Their desires
Their concerns
Their questions
You probably only need to talk to 5-7 people.
Who do you talk to? Not your friends… they trust you already. Interview happy customers who represent customers you would like to work with. They are going to be happy to help.
Here are some questions you should ask:
How was it?
How do you feel about it?
What brought you to us?
What else did you look at?
What were you looking for?
If you were the CEO of our company, what would you change or fix tomorrow?
What trends do you see in the industry?
What’s your biggest problem?
What phrase would you use if you were searching for a solution to this problem today?
Is there anything I should have asked you, that I didn’t?
(Sometimes you can skip quesitons if people have already answered them.)
Whoever is interviewing needs to be tuned in. If you detect doubt or subtle nuances, dig in. It’s easier to have a third party do these interview– people are more willing to open up– but you can do it yourself, if you want.
Interviews generally take 30 minutes or less.
Record them (with permission).
Don’t use machine transcription– use Rev.com for human transcription. Edit the transcript to clean it up (and anonymize if you’re using a third party).
You could use a Virtual Assistant who really knows your business, and can do interviews well.
Be honest if you don’t know something.
AI may not be great at exact transcriptions, but it is very good at summarizing findings.
Alistair’s first job out of school was writing assembly code for IBM mainframes, then went to Sun Microsystems to work on their Solaris operating system. (He may be the nerdiest guest we’ve had.)
He didn’t like working for someone else, and started an SEO (Search Engine Optimization) business. (He started a couple of projects on the side, before he quit his job.)
He also took a course on starting a business, and reached out to the teacher, who gave him a hook up for a cheap trade show booth, because another business had backed out at the last minute.
He got a lot of leads at the tradeshow, but didn’t know what to do with them. So he asked for help again, and learned to create offers. (Some of the leads needed SEO, and some needed a website.)
Alistair ended up calling this business Website Doctor (a brand he still uses).
However, he realized he had no specialization. Every project was different. Everything required word-of-mouth.
He started planning a podcast in July 2014 and he launched in April 2021. He didn’t know what audience he was trying to target.
Alistair groups business development strategies for consultants into 3 buckets:
Referrals (how most consultants operate)
Outbound sales (yuck)
Inbound (the Holy Grail for Alistair)
Alistair has worked with a lot of coaches, but Philip Morgan, author of The Positioning Manual for Indie Consultants (great book, btw, and I need to have Philip come) was a key influence that Alistair reached out to ask for help. Phillip helped him niche down, from “Marketing for Consultants” to “the Recognized Authority”.
If you’re a local brand, you don’t need as much differentiation, because you only have local competition. But if you want to compete globally, you need to niche down and become the “recognized authority” in that niche. “If you’re everything to everybody, you’re nothing to nobody.”
If you pick the right niche, there are more than enough clients.
When you niche down, you can become known for what you do, unlike being a generalist. You avoid the blandness of generic content. You avoid the constant learning curve of being a generalist. As a specialist, you can go beyond the surface level, and the people in your tribe, know that you get them and their issue(s). You want to be like the doctor or lawyer who deals with your particular problem all day, every day.
Most common specializations are horizontal (problem-based) and vertical (industry-based). Ideally, you do both.
David C. Baker says you should have at least 200 businesses in the market you’re targeting.
Note that you can experiment with your positioning with test campaigns or even just testing when you speak to people.
List your past projects. What was the client’s ability to pay? How much did I like working on the project? What patterns emerge? This is how Alistair figured out how to zero in on consultants.
Alistair’s 5 Steps for better Positioning:
Past Client Analysis
Skills & Interests Assessment
Small Scale Research to validate ideas
Craft Test Positioning (“I help these people solve this problem” or some variation on that, but keep it simple. This also makes it easy to keep a history of your evolving positioning)
Validate and Iterate. Every time someone asks, “what do you do?”, you get a chance to do this.
Then create content, in whatever format you like, aimed at helping your niche solve the big problem you help them solve. This is a great way to market for an introvert, and it lets people arrive “pre-sold”.
The Wine Whiskey
Alistair enjoys some Jameson Crested Irish whiskey (quite a solid pour, I might add, although I didn’t really give him a chance to drink it during the episode).
Reuben has a glass of Rokkosan 12 year old Japanese whisky.
It also has a “mad-libs” style wizard to help you lay our your mission and positioning, including your origin story and customer stories so you can hone and share your unique perspective. Plus, Mimiran makes follow-up a breeze, so staying on top of those busy editors is easy. And lead magnets let you convert your exposure into leads and conversations.
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Publishing a book is a great way to turn your expertise into authority (see this episode with Rusty Shelton for more details), but you don’t have to go all the way to a book to gain many of the benefits.
Erica Holthausen will show you how to publish articles in magazines and journals to raise your profile and attract ideal clients.
Erica was a recovering lawyer, turned marketer, who realized with the help of a business coach, that her true passion was helping her clients get published. She talked to other editors and consultants and realized that this could be her business.
In this episode, Erica outlines her methods so you can get published.
First, who should try to get published?
Anyone in an oversaturated market who needs to differentiate themselves.
Anyone who wants to build a reputation and personal brand.
People who have an idea that they want to spread.
Why don’t people do this?
Publication guidelines tend to be clear as mud.
Most online resources are for freelancer writers, not experts trying to publish.
And some people should not pursue this path.
If you need revenue ASAP, don’t waste time trying to get published– it’s a long term play.
If you’re only trying to publish for the SEO boost. There are more effective ways to boost SEO rankings. (Although SEO improvements are a nice side benefit. Note that if SEO is an important focus, look for publications that give you an author blurb with a link on every article, not just a link to your author page.)
If you do want to pursue publishing, (in magazines and journals), here’s what to do…
Consider your goals. Publishing will not magically make money fall from the sky. It’s a part of your business strategy. (One of Erica’s clients wrote articles in an industry journal for individual prospects. Others write content that they don’t even expect their prospects to read– but the credibility boost opens doors. Others want to interview key players in their industry.) Your target publications will depend on your goals, and of course who you’re trying to reach. Often, industry publications are more effective for reaching prospects than more widely known media properties.
Figure out the rules and guidelines for your target publication(s). Everyone has different guidelines. Some are published (Google “write for us [publication name]” or “author guidelines [publication name]”) and some are not. Some have lots of detail, some don’t. But make sure you understand what you can (for example, Inc lets you do interview-style articles, while Entrepreneur does not). Do not be “high maintenance”. Editors are already too busy. Consume the content in your target publication(s), which you’re probably already doing.
Write your article. Yes, before your pitch it. This has several benefits.
You know what you’re actually pitching… the ideas may evolve as you write.
You avoid writer’s block and you can submit the content quickly if you get a “yes”.
Unlike a freelance writer, whose business is getting paid to write, you can use this content elsewhere (even your own blog) if editors don’t want it.
Make sure you fact check everything. Be clear and specific. Don’t write “studies show…”. Link to the actual study. (Which of course you have read and understood.)
Submit your pitch (depending on the publication, you can pitch an article and/or a column). Be clear and concise, not clever. These folks are already overworked. Have a subject like “article pitch: [title]”. (Have a good working title.) Explain why this story matters, and why you should write it. The editor doesn’t care about you, but about the audience.
Show how your piece adds to the conversation already happening for that publication. Look for ways your perspective lets you build on other pieces, with “yes, but…”, “yes, and…”, or “no, because…”. Editors are starving for great content and they can’t afford to pay for it. (Just don’t make your article pitch a pitch for you and your services. That doesn’t serve the audience.)
Include relevant credibility boosters– other publications, quotes in other people’s articles, podcast appearances, industry experience, degrees, etc. You don’t need to list everything, but provide third-party validation of your authority to write on this subject.
Conclude with something like, “If I don’t hear back from you, I will reach out to you in 10 days.”
Follow up. Building on the last point– follow up when you say you will. Editors are busy. They inundated with pitches. They may be sick or on vacation. Give the benefit of the doubt. Follow up by forwarding back the original email, so everything is in one place. After 3-5 attempts, conclude with something like, “If I don’t hear from you in 10 days, I’ll assume you’re not interested and will pitch elsewhere.” (Always pitch one publication at a time.) If you get any response at all, call it a win. (“Nice piece, but we’ve got too many article about XYZ for now…”) If you keep getting no response, get help with your pitch. Would you want someone coming on your podcast with that pitch?
Submit. If you actually get a “yes”, submit your article. You can also ask questions if you need help with guidelines at this point.
Leverage your article(s).
Send a link via personalized email to the key circle of people you wanted to read the piece, including mentors, other experts you cited, key prospects, etc.
Send to your newsletter, on social media, your podcast, YouTube, etc. Multiple times. It may be old hat to you, but not everyone will see it each time.
Put an “as seen in” logo on your site. Just make sure it links through to your article or author page. Erica will assume you’re lying if the logo doesn’t go anywhere.
If you got published via pay-to-play, that’s fine, just don’t pretend that you’re the next Brené Brown. That will cost you credibility instead of gaining it.
Of course, if you want and/or need help with any of this, connect with Erica. (See contact info below, including how to register for her free monthly Pitched to Published sessions.)
The Wine
Erica enjoys some Pfeiffer Wines Rock It Like a Redhead Cabernet Sauvignon (“The Rebel”).
Reuben has Chateau Galateau from St Emilion, Bordeaux.
It also has a “mad-libs” style wizard to help you lay our your mission and positioning, including your origin story and customer stories so you can hone and share your unique perspective. Plus, Mimiran makes follow-up a breeze, so staying on top of those busy editors is easy. And lead magnets let you convert your exposure into leads and conversations.
Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):
“When you’re feeling out of your mind, you’re probably in somebody else’s. And when you’re in someone else’s mind, you’re out of your own.”
Bridget Hom
Bridget Hom’s mom was in public relations, her dad was in sales, and they had scheduled family meetings every Sunday, so you might think she was destined for entrepeneurship.
But she started her career as a journalist. And then got a masters in theology, planning on going into the ministry. She realized later that journalism, ministry, and marketing all share a similar theme.
In her twenties, she lived a self-described “bougie” lifestyle with 3 nannies, house cleaners and traveled the world as a stay-at-home mom (“domestic engineer”).
But she got Zoom-divorced and moved into a small apartment with her 3 boys.
She got certified as a coach and met a man while salsa dancing who became her business partner in a placement agency, but that dried up with the pandemic.
Fortunately, that dance partner gave her the best advice she ever receieved:
“Wherever you go, just be you.”
In this episode, learn:
How Bridget showed up and started her “Bridge to Freedom Coaching Program” and how you can apply her techniques to your program(s).
Why being “Stuck on Ready” (the title of her book, btw) is so important for an entrepreneur. In other words, always be ready to take (imperfect) action, instead of waiting for perfection.
To hire and fire the right mental team, before you try to sell your prospects your own limiting beliefs.
Why feelings aren’t your friends– action is your friend.
How to create empowered referral partners. (Hint, it has a lot to do with some of the core concepts about referrals and conversations in Mimiran.)
Why having an ideal client profile is important, but why you shouldn’t get wrapped up in that idea when you start. (And how to figure it out. Hint, it’s really easy, especially with the right (anti)CRM.)
Why you need to look and feel “the part”.
How to stay accountable and on track (and why a 1% deviation from your course will lead you miles astray). (You do have a destination and a course, right?)
To make sure your actions are moving you towards your destination.
To address your headspace every single day. Be intentional. Brain dump. Hire and fire the right mental team. (See video below that Bridget mentions.) “As entrepreneurs we’re typically in relationships with our thoughts about people, versus people themselves.”
Why if you have an endless todo list, if it’s not digestible each day, you’re going to think you’re a failure every day. Set a 2 minute timer and write for 2 minutes (pen & paper). Then hire & fire the right mental team. Shift negative ideas to positive, with action. For example, if you’ve hired “resentment” on your team, fire that and hire “motivation” or “serenity” and then do something in line with that team member.
How to know if and when to actually change course.
Why you need to keep having conversations.
“As entrepreneurs we’re typically in relationships with our thoughts about people, versus people themselves.”
What do you think I do? Let people tell you…
Look at your day– do your actions line up with revenue– clients, prospects, prospecting, and content creation.
Is there an even exchange of energy? Especially with collaboration partners. If you’re not talking about profit in your collaborations, you’re not being serious.
Put that energy into your business development.
Be problem aware and solution seeking. Be aware of anything that keeps your from limitless potential. A lot of entrepreneurs have the wrong mental and they don’t reach out to anyone.
Here’s the Juggling with the Jenkins– if my brain had a morning meeting video.
It also has a “mad-libs” style wizard to help you lay our your mission and positioning, including your origin story and customer stories. And great ways to help you have more conversations, as Bridget recommends.
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Richard White is founder and CEO of Fathom, a Zoom plugin that helps you take notes, and that I use every day.
He solves problems that he has and ends up forming companies around the solutions… He started UserVoice, to get customer feedback at scale, because at the previous startup, they had more feedback than they could digest. At that company, he noticed that while he thought he took good notes, he often didn’t know which notes went with which calls, and he had trouble sharing notes with teammates. This lead to Fathom…
Fathom plugs into Zoom, and provides a transcript, and also lets you easily highlight a section of a conversation. (Since Richard and I spoke, they also released an AI Summary feature, which is amazing.)
Here are some notes best practices:
Rewatch highlights and last 3 minutes of the previous call right before you go into the next conversation.
Don’t obsess with what note-taking framework to use… just have a system that works for you. It’s hard to change your style, and very hard to change someone else’s style.
Some people take short notes and then fill them in later. Some people block out 10 minutes after each meeting to take your notes. Pick the system that works for you.
Richard has bad handwriting like me, so he used to take notes in Google Docs, with headings and indentations to organize.
He uses mnemonic to help remember things via single keywords. (If he’s focused on typing, he’s not fully listening, so it’s helpful to use these shortcuts that you can flesh out later.)
Use Voice Memos on your phone, if necessary, to capture key points from a meeting before you forget.
Here are Reuben’s Fathom highlight options:
This makes it easy to highlight key points for reference and/or future review. It also means that if I need to follow up with tasks, search later for introductions, or write a proposal, I can pull up the relevant info easily.
Just for reference:
CRM: is for when someone tells me what they’re doing for CRM now. You might want to have a different flag for your particular line of work.
D: Decision-making. (“I need to talk to my spouse”, “I’m reviewing these things with my marketing agency on Thursday.”, etc)
ICP: Ideal Client Profile. Helpful for making introductions.
ID: Ideal solution. (“What I’d really like is to be able to follow up and never forget someone.”)
NS: Next step. (“I’ll send you the info to book a time to be on my podcast.”)
P: Problem statement. (“It’s driving me nuts that…”, “I wish I could avoid…”, etc)
And if you’d like to watch the episode, here’s the video:
The Wine & “Athletic Beer”
Richard has an Oktoberfest “Athletic Beer”, because he’s in a clean living phase.
Reuben is not, so he had a glass of Brave Willamette Valley Pinot Noir.
Mark Firth is a traveler of both virtual and physical worlds, moving from London to Bogota and now on to Florida. In Colombia, he realized his Spanish wasn’t good enough for local business, and his attempts to teach English were getting commoditized by the web.
He started a remote digital marketing firm, focused on LinkedIn. Initial results were good, but as the platform got flooded with spam (and LinkedIn services became more commoditized), Mark realized he needed to have more control over this destiny.
In this episode, learn how:
The YouTube algorithm is different from other social media sites
To get started producing video, without fancy equipment
To combine online video and your existing mailing list
Be patient and “find your voice”
To grow beyond the control of anyone else’s platform
The best way to show that you can help people
Of course, we had to put the YouTube video here. 😉
The Wine
Reuben enjoys some Devil’s Corner Tasmanian Pinot Noir (never tried wine from Tasmania before– quite nice– a lot of cranberry), while Mark has some cold green tea.
