Category: sales

084 Steve Buzogany on Client Appreciation

Steve Buzogany

Steve actually started his career in sales– as a real estate agent. One of his mentors told him he was working too hard and being too transactional instead of focusing on the relationship, limiting his referrals. But as an introvert, Steve felt awkward calling people up to cultivate referrals.

To get around this, Steve started sending gifts to people to give him a reason to call someone. This led to organic conversations about real estate, without the ickiness. (It was also much more fun.)

Using this gifting strategy, Steve got his business to 73% referrals, and made good money while taking a month off. He didn’t have to chase cold leads, and he won business in about half the time it took the average agent. Other realtors asked him how he did it, but complained they did have time to give thoughtful gifts. Steve had the insight that he could provide gifts as a service for other people.

Steve’s first gifts were “cheap”– like little bottles of vodka around the holidays. Not always appropriate, and even if it was, it was gone quickly.

Over time, he developed a more intentional gifting strategy, that you can implement by following his 6 Rules of Gifting:

  1. Focus on the client, not you. This is a gift, not a promotion.
  2. The gift must be high quality.
  3. You must personalize the gift.
  4. It must provide deep emotional impact (painting of client’s dog?)
  5. It must have staying power and not be a one-time use item.
  6. It must increase your connection (come with a handwritten note, video, etc)

Here examples of bad gifts:

  1. Thank you email. This is just a transactional item.
  2. Consumables like food and wine, flowers, or events, which are one-time events. (This means don’t give a bottle of wine, or don’t just give a bottle of wine– give a personalized corkscrew or some fancy wine glasses.)
  3. Swag bags
  4. Promotional items
  5. Gift cards (lazy)

Here are some other tips:

  • “Attack the kitchen.” Things like ice cream scoopers, pizza cutters, etc get used repeatedly.
  • Take time to get to know your best clients and partners. Trying to figure out a great gift is a good perspective for asking good questions and getting more connected.
  • Focus on the top 20% of your clients and partners who provide 80% of the referrals.
  • Plan to spend 5-10% of the revenue these clients generate on the gift. Gift 1, 2, or 4 times per year.
  • Have fun doing radically nice things for your best clients and partners.

And if you’d like to watch the episode, here’s the video:

The Wine (& Beer)

Reuben enjoys Para Maria Syrah/Petit Verdot blend from Santa Barbara county. (The second half of the bottle from the Wayne Mullins episode.)

Steve has a UFO American Style White Ale.

Where to find Steve

listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also  listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. (It also tracks referrals and how much business you get from them and makes it easy to follow up and have conversations, just like Steve suggests.)

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):

082 Jay Kingley on Referrability

Jay Kingley on Sales for Nerds to talk about referrals

Jay was a chemical engineer who went into management consulting, because he loved solving problems. His family was in business, so he grew up with this.

He joined a firm that had spun out of Bain in London and loved the work. But as he moved up and became a partner, he had to sell, which he didn’t find interesting at all.

He looked at what the other partners did– they entertained clients. Jay didn’t want to do that.

He wanted to solve problems. So he’d read about what was going on in his clients’ industries, then he’d call the CEO and talk about what was happening.

Jay decided to start helping smaller companies. He tried the networking groups and all that. It worked but was not a good use of time.

In this episode, learned what Jay learned, including:

  • How the 98% Typical elevator pitch (I solve these problems, for these types of clients, by providing this type of service) differs from the 2% elevator pitch, which makes the client the hero. This goes back to the great Christmas movie of all time (Die Hard– this is why Jay and I get along)– you have to be able to identify with, and root for, the hero.
  • Don’t confuse marketing (1 to many) with sales (1 to 1).
  • How to get someone to really listen to your advice.

Plus the 3 stages of marketing:

  • 0: Spray and pray (“random acts of marketing”)
  • 1: Targeted outbound prospecting. Can work quickly– in about 90 days, but not efficient.
  • 2: Referrals. (Introductions are often a waste of time. Referrals are a bit better, but if you are one of 3 referrals, you’re going to waste a lot of time.
  • 3: Provocative Perspective. Offer a contrarian perspective that people can tell to their network. Then the people who find the story resonates want to talk to you. Simon Sinek is a great example of this strategy.

Why should people help share your Provocative Perspective? Because these people know they need to nurture their relationships and provide a lot of value, but they need something to say.

The Wine

Reuben enjoys Sorpasso Italian red.

Jay has a (giant glass of) California Merlot.

Where to find Jay

listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also  listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. (It also tracks referrals and how much business you get from them.)

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):

077 Jonathan Stark on Ditching Hourly Billing

Jonathan Stark is a former software developer turned consultant who hates hourly billing and helps people “ditch hourly” and do value-based pricing.

And somehow, I didn’t know about him until recently. (Jonathan made the observation that we’re climbing up the same mountain from different sides.)

If you’ve ever stressed about pricing a project proposal, don’t miss this episode, where Jonathan shares:

  • How he had an epiphany when he worked for a consulting firm about why hourly billing had to go. He spent weeks trying to figure out why his “best” consultant was the least profitable.
  • Why the problem was hourly billing.
  • How he started his own firm because he needed to get rid of hourly billing, and made more money in his first year.
  • How hourly billing transforms your client relationships.
  • Why hourly billing goes sideways (and why it tends to start sideways, because you ask different questions in the initial meeting)
  • How to do things in the right order– figure out the value first, including the success criteria (and can you even satisfy them?), then the price, then scope.
  • How to let people unburden themselves– let them brain dump, then ask the structured questions, as needed, to fill in the details.
  • How do paid roadmapping sessions to gather information
  • How to get 100% payment upfront (and what to do if you can’t)
  • Fixed price is not the same as cost-plus
  • How do deal with unknown scopes (and the real scopes are always unknown), v
  • How to use explicit guarantees to reduce risk for the buyer, without changing how you operate.
  • How to ask questions like a doctor. (Doctors don’t tell you to jump on the operating table when they first meet you.)

The Wine

It’s a California Pinot Noir kind of episode, with Jonathan enjoying some La Cream and Reuben having a glass of Grevino.

Books

Hourly Billing Is Nuts, by Jonathan.

Value-Based Fees: How to Charge and Get What You’re Worth, by Alan Weiss. (Catch Alan’s Sales for Nerds interview here.)

Where to find Jonathan Stark

  • LinkedIn (he doesn’t really do LinkedIn)
  • valuepricingbootcamp.com— 6 day free email course
  • JonathanStark.com (by the way– check out this website not just for the awesome info, but the awesome example of how to create a great consulting website.)
listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also  listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. It tracks referrals and helps you grow and nurture your network. And it can help you implement Jonathan’s ideas about offering different options, crafting a value-based story in your proposal (you can get a free proposal template, too).

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):

076 Corrie Loguidice on starting a new business

Corrie has a “very expensive piece of paper that says she can draw well.” An art degree. So instead of waiting tables, she came to join the family electronics reseller business as a graphic designer.

Instead of getting disintermediated by the internet, Corrie was able to use her graphic design skills to promote her customers, the mom and pop electronics dealers.

Corrie realized she was in an abusive marriage and got a divorce with a 5-month-old. Then she realized she was commuting 20 hours per week and paying someone to watch her son part time, just for the commute. Then, she lost her post-divorce partner to suicide.

At this point, she knew she was strong enough to keep going, but she decided to reevaluate her life.

She knew she had to leave the family business, but this was harder than all the other trials.

But Corrie got clients, a social media following, and, within a year, was on a TEDx stage. So now she teaches other people how to start their own consulting businesses.

In this episode learn:

  • That websites don’t get you leads (I disagree!), conversations get you leads (I agree!). “Conversations are what lead to revenue.”
  • How to set yourself up for financial success and handling the stress of starting your practice.
  • How to figure out who you help, what you do for them, and why they should care, including how to hone your niche, and even how to pivot from one niche to another.
  • How do this with conversations, because if you can’t do it in a conversation, how will your website do it for you? (And stop worrying about colors and brands and logos– focus on the real conversations.)
  • Why you shouldn’t discount, and what to do instead.
  • Why the gold is in the follow up.
  • How to feel confident when having conversations with prospects and partners, including sales conversations.
  • Why you don’t need to waste time and money on expensive marketing campaigns.

The Wine (& Vodka)

Corrie enjoys a cocktail of vodka, water, and watermelon juice.

Reuben enjoys a Contina di Montelcino sangiovesi. Yumm, tastes like Italy.

Where to find Corrie

listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also  listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. It tracks referrals and helps you grow and nurture your network.

(Including the more powerful than ever Free Edition.) Mimiran can help you implement a lot of Shaily’s ideas not only more efficiently, but more effectively, including telling your Origin Story, coming up with your Superhero Name so you’re unforgettable and more referrable, and much more.

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):

075 Julie Brown on networking the right way

“Networking” evokes thoughts of small talk and getting stabbed in the eye with business cards, at least for some of us. But it’s essential to so many relationship-based businesses. How can we grow and nurture an awesome, helpful, fun network without feeling icky?

In this episode, Julie Brown, author of This Shit Works: A No-Nonsense Guide to Networking Your Way to More Friends, More Adventures, and More Success (and host of the This Shit Works podcast), teaches you how to grow a great network while having fun and staying true to yourself, including:

  • You can build a big network– over time, not over night.
  • How Julie treats friends and colleagues
  • The “shortcut” to meeting lots of the right people.
  • How Julie’s network helped her husband launch his architecture firm, amidst the 2008 crash, how it helped Julie launch her business, and how you can apply it your business.
  • Why traditional icebreaker questions are terrible, and what to ask instead.
  • How to handle follow up.
  • Whether we should be happy and/or sad about the Celtics season (OK, that’s a bit of a tangent).

The Wine

Julie enjoys some “cougar juice” (how have I not heard this term before?), in other words, some buttery chardonnay, while I have some Nine Hats Pinot Gris from Washington (it’s over 100 in Texas, and I’m drinking white).

Where to find Julie

listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also  listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. It tracks referrals and helps you grow and nurture your network.

(Including the more powerful than ever Free Edition.) Mimiran can help you implement a lot of Shaily’s ideas not only more efficiently, but more effectively, including telling your Origin Story, coming up with your Superhero Name so you’re unforgettable and more referrable, and much more.

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):

074 Cynthia Zhai on using your voice effectively

We spend a lot of time and energy finding the right words (we do, right?), but how we say them matters at least as much.

In this episode, executive voice coach Cynthia Zhai joins from Singapore (thanks for being willing to have some wine on a Saturday morning) to talk about how to talk.

Cynthia recounts some of her own struggles with confidence in meetings, how she developed her voice to overcome those challenges, and how she helps others do the same thing.

Learn how:

  • You can change your voice– it’s not just something you’re born with.
  • To project confidence to others (and yourself)
  • To breathe and speak from your core, not just your throat (building nicely on some of the breathing tips Ashley DePaulis discussed). Cynthia demonstrates “Kung Fu Breathing” techniques that you can practice yourself (see video below).
  • To break out of the vicious cycle of non feeling confidence and then not sounding confident
  • To handle speaking too aggressively
  • To build habits so that even when you get nervous, your habits will keep you speaking the way you practiced
  • To listen to others’ voices, and to detect nervousness and dishonesty

Check out this short clip on Kung Fu breathing:

Or catch the whole interview on video:

The Wine

Cynthia has some Jacob’s Creek Australian red wine. Reuben is enjoying some Averaen Pinot Noir from Oregon.

Where to find Cynthia

listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also  listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Note, speaking of stories, a good proposal is a story, not a brochure– get your “Fill in the Blank” Consulting Proposal Template.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. (Including the more powerful than ever Free Edition.) Mimiran can help you implement a lot of Shaily’s ideas not only more efficiently, but more effectively, including telling your Origin Story, coming up with your Superhero Name so you’re unforgettable and more referrable, and much more.

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):

071 Melisa Liberman on going from an employee to owner mindset

Melisa Liberman loved working at a Big 4 consulting firm, but life had other plans and she ended up starting out on her own. (Listen to what happened and why “no one should have sympathy for me”.)

Even as a successful, hard-charging corporate consultant and executive, it took years for Melisa to make the mindset shift to being a business owner, with all the different hats that involves.

Fortunately, she learned a lot on the way, and found people asking her to help them transition to independent consulting, for more freedom, better work-life balance, more impact, and more money. She realized that a lot of the issues she struggled with started with mindset.

And she’s here to help you get your head in order the easy way, including:

  • The differences between consulting and coaching.
  • How to think like a strategic business owner, while you’re also an employee (of your own firm).
  • How to be proactive about client acquisition– you have much more control than you think– and avoid becoming staff augmentation for someone else’s business.
  • How to create a 3-year vision for your practice that gives you practical things to do today.
  • How to think about your own thinking, so you can get out of your own way.

(This episode builds on Liz Steblay’s wonderful advice on leaving the corporate world for independent consulting in episode 70.)

The Wine

Reuben is enjoying some Chateau Graves de Pez Bordeaux from St. Estephe (aren’t we snooty?), while Melisa enjoys some “house red” pinot noir.

Where to find Melisa

listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also  listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Note, speaking of stories, a good proposal is a story, not a brochure– get your “Fill in the Blank” Consulting Proposal Template.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. (Including the more powerful than ever Free Edition.) Mimiran can help you implement a lot of Shaily’s ideas not only more efficiently, but more effectively, including telling your Origin Story, coming up with your Superhero Name so you’re unforgettable and more referrable, and much more.

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):

070 Liz Steblay on starting your independent consulting business

Liz Steblay ProkoConsulting PICA Network Sales for Nerds

Liz Steblay had it all– maybe a little too much. A successful career at a Big 4 firm and young daughter. When her boss noted that missing evening meetings to care for her child was “not sustainable” for her career, she agreed, and started off on her own.

In this episode learn:

  • How to manage money and finances (don’t make the mistake that I made, and that I see people repeating all the time)
  • How to get clients and build awareness.
  • How to keep your sanity.

This episode is aimed at people contemplating leaving their corporate careers to strike out on their own, or folks who have just made the leap, but even if you’ve been an independent consultant for years, you’ll find some helpful wisdom here.

The Wine

Reuben is enjoying some Acha Pinot Noir from the Santa Maria Valley in California.

Books:

Irrestible Consultants Guide to Winning Clients

As mentioned by Liz, and seconded by Reuben, the Irresistible Consultant’s Guide to Winning Clients, by David A. Fields (check out his Sales for Nerds episode).

Where to find Liz

listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also  listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Note, speaking of stories, a good proposal is a story, not a brochure– get your “Fill in the Blank” Consulting Proposal Template.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. (Including the more powerful than ever Free Edition.) Mimiran can help you implement a lot of Shaily’s ideas not only more efficiently, but more effectively, including telling your Origin Story, coming up with your Superhero Name so you’re unforgettable and more referrable, and much more.

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):

069 Will Russell on getting clients as an introvert

How do you get clients as an introvert? Will Russell started a spreadsheet to track his business development activities. And their results. Most efforts failed. But one was very successful, and powers his business to this day.

In this episode learn:

  • Why will didn’t want to follow in the footsteps of his happy father.
  • The accidental reason he decided to major in philosophy and sociology.
  • The accidental reason he started out on his own.
  • His various attempts to get clients.
  • What actually worked.
  • Why he still hates networking.
  • Why he doesn’t want to grow his headcount, and how he’s growing his bottom line instead.
  • Why having a niche is so important to his strategy. (Will helps companies with product launches, btw.)

p.s. Apologies for some audio degradation– we didn’t have a good connection, and I should have just turned off video to focus on audio. I hate bad audio, but didn’t want to ask Will to re-record, and I think what he has to say is valuable enough to make it worthwhile.

The Wine

Will is drinking some green tea. (He is British, after all.)

Reuben is some Chateau-Neuf de Pape from Domaine de Fontavin.

Books:

Quiet: The Power of Introverts in a World that Can’t Stop Talking by Susan Cain is a great read, whether you’re introverted, or have introverts in your life.

Will bought it for his extroverted dad.

Where to find Will

listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also  listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Note, speaking of stories, a good proposal is a story, not a brochure– get your “Fill in the Blank” Consulting Proposal Template.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. (Including the more powerful than ever Free Edition.) Mimiran can help you implement a lot of Shaily’s ideas not only more efficiently, but more effectively, including telling your Origin Story, coming up with your Superhero Name so you’re unforgettable and more referrable, and much more.

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):

068 Strategic Planning for Business and Life

2021 is almost done. Have you done your planning for 2022? Started it?

The irony is that I had planned (thank you, I’ll be here all week) to make this a panel discussion, and I just didn’t have time to do that. So I just present some tips on how to plan (and how not to).

You can find lots of templates over the inter webs — pick whatever works for you.

This is not a step-by-step guide to planning. I’ve found that what works for one person may not work for another, so find the right guide for you.

This is a set of ideas on planning so that you get better results out of whatever particular process you want to use.

In particular:

  • Make sure you consider your life holistically– not just your work, but your relationships, and spiritual, mental, and physical health
  • Review 2021. How did it go?
  • Don’t drift.
  • Make sure you have strong positioning— it’s your secret superpower. I’ve said it before as have many guests on the podcast– this is foundation for everything else in your business. If you get stuck, try the Mission & Positioning tool in Mimiran, and ask your current and past clients (Meg Cumby has some great tips on this.)
  • What are your goals? Consider them holistically. You may have income goals, work/life balance goals, you may want to learn basket weaving, etc. Don’t just put out a financial target (unless you have no relationships and hobbies and just want to make money) without considering other aspects of your life.
  • You can’t just keep adding things to your todo list. Create a NOT todo list. Eliminate, delegate, and automate where possible. Use zero-based task budgeting.
  • One area people often lose a bunch of time is talking to the wrong people, because you don’t have clear positioning, you aren’t sure of your goals, and you haven’t blocked out time for actually achieving them.
  • Put the tasks you need to do to get to your goals in your calendar. Block off time every week. Don’t put the scheduled but non-strategic stuff in the calendar and then try to fit the strategic stuff around that. (Start with the “big rocks”.)
  • If talking to people is essential to getting clients, make sure you have time for that blocked off in your calendar. (Use the Pipeline Planner tool to see how many conversations you’re likely to need.)
  • If referrals are essential for your business, make sure you have time blocked off to nurture your referral network. (Check out Stacey Brown Randall’s episode on referrals for more info, and make sure you build out your referral report, which Stacy calls the most valuable asset in your business.)
  • Review your plan with trusted advisors, mentors, peers, etc. You will get insights that you couldn’t get on your own– you’ll learn where you can eliminate entire classes of tasks, and where you need to push harder. If you do this in a peer group where you are providing feedback also, you’ll get additional insights, and get to be helpful.
  • Block off time for the plan. You need to review, prepare, talk to your advisory group, and revise. How much time this will take depends on you, but I suggest several hours for each phase. (Note that if you don’t have your positioning, a big chunk of your plan should be working on that.)

And if you caught Barley barking at the end, here she is at the park:

And again– we’ve actually got video for this episode on YouTube or see below…

The Wine

Reuben mixed it up with some white wine– K Vintners Viognier from Yakima Valley, Washington. Nice and peachy– more of a summer wine, but still quite delicious.

listen-on-apple-podcasts-sales-for-nerds

Where to find Reuben

@Sales4Nerds, @Mimiran, Mimiran.com.You can also  listen on Overcast, or Subscribe on Android, or Player.fm.

Note, speaking of stories, a good proposal is a story, not a brochure– get your “Fill in the Blank” Consulting Proposal Template.

Want a way to make sales and marketing fun, without being “salesy”? Try Mimiran, the CRM for elite solo consultants who love serving clients but who hate “selling”. (Including the more powerful than ever Free Edition.) Mimiran can help you implement a lot of Shaily’s ideas not only more efficiently, but more effectively, including telling your Origin Story, coming up with your Superhero Name so you’re unforgettable and more referrable, and much more.

Get alerted when there are new episodes (1x/month):